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The 2nd Amendment
02-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Post: #1
The 2nd Amendment
Don't Tread on Me!!!


Having so many avid outdoorsman on this site, it is long overdue for a talk about gun control.
I feel that a RESPECTFUL "debate" on the topic will serve to educate thereby benefit us all.
There's a lot of questions that need to be tossed out there for debate! Here's a few.

- was the gov't involved with sandy hook?
- does the gov't control the media?
- does the media control the gov't?
- how much of the news is manufactured?
- should ppl with mental illness be allowed to have guns?
- will outlawing "assault" type weapons solve any problems?
- should teachers and principals be allowed to carry guns in school?

I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, I require the same from them.-John Wayne
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02-03-2013, 10:14 AM
Post: #2
RE: The 2nd Amendment
(02-03-2013 09:57 AM)mr. crappie Wrote:  Don't Tread on Me!!!


Having so many avid outdoorsman on this site, it is long overdue for a talk about gun control.
I feel that a RESPECTFUL "debate" on the topic will serve to educate thereby benefit us all.
There's a lot of questions that need to be tossed out there for debate! Here's a few.

- was the gov't involved with sandy hook?
- does the gov't control the media?
- does the media control the gov't?
- how much of the news is manufactured?
- should ppl with mental illness be allowed to have guns?
- will outlawing "assault" type weapons solve any problems?
- should teachers and principals be allowed to carry guns in school?
Nice! I'll throw some of my opinions out there and expand as more input comes.
1) yes and many other incidents.
2)yes all mainstream media anyway
3)no
4)95% of main stream media
5)mental illness is such a broad term, another way to reduce the # of people eligible to buy/ own guns. we hear the term mentally ill, and most think of severly challenged or disabled folks. The health care industry, and the govt view chemical dependcy as a mental illness. So if you've had a dui or possession of drugs charge you would be considered mentally ill. This is why if you have a dui charge pending u will be denied the purchase of a firearm by NICS.
6)no, this was proven and admitted by govt agencies after the 10 year ban from 94-04.
7)absolutely . In fact if everyone carried a concealed handgun, crime would plummet because the criminals would be scared of getting shot, as the victim or a y bystander would be armed.

Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. George Carlin
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02-03-2013, 10:28 AM
Post: #3
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Just a guess but I'll bet out of the 1280 people who died of gun related incidents most were in the barrio, ghetto or projects.

LUCK IS THE RESIDUE OF DESIGN.
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02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
Post: #4
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Does the media control the government and vice versa.
Lets just say they know how to use each other when it serves their purpose.
The media can be sensationalistic whores. They don't necessarily care about accuracy as long as they get it first and more important it sells, plus promotes that particular medium. They thrive over one ups man ship, the details be damned.
For both of them, propaganda is a double edge sword and they have it down to a science. Does out of context ring any bells?

Should school teachers have guns? Absolutely not!!
If the event arises and this is usually only a matter of seconds, where can they safely hide them so there are no accidents, yet get to them immediately?
Is a school teacher adequately trained for an instantaneous armed confrontation.
This is not a TV show, rather the real thing.
Are they psychologically prepared to take someone's life without hesitation?
There will be no time to argue, debate or second guess. An action that will take place in split seconds.

Remember when the second amendment was written they only had flint lock muskets that were inaccurate and not very reliable.
If our forefathers would have been faced with the issues of today, wouldn't they have debated it considerably more and devise a form of their own gun control?
A red coat can be seen a mile away, however crazy people go undetected.

There are millions of guns out there today, so any kind of restrictions or regulation will be difficult or if not impossible to enforce. The demand alone will dictate their existence.

The hardest thing in life is knowing which bridge to cross and which one to burn.
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02-03-2013, 10:51 AM
Post: #5
RE: The 2nd Amendment
my opinions:
1. I do not think so. Not that I can tell.
2. I think somewhat. They let them in places they should not be. They tell them what they can and cannot report.
3. I would say in some ways. The gov't is worried what the media is going to say about the people in gov't, so. they mind what they do what they back and what bills they will pass. They do not want to tarnish their reputations for their next term.
4. I do think at least 90%.
5. I would say in some cases yes. If you use drugs, more than 2 dui's(limit the use or owning to four years or something like that). I do not want someone hooked on drugs or alcohol in the woods with me (my opinion). Only bad things can happen when you are hooked on these. People with server mental illness should not be allowed to have guns, or be allowed around them.
6. No. A weapon is a weapon no matter what that weapon may be. I myself would not own one, but, I do know people who have them and use them for all the right reasons. As long as you have to pull the trigger every time you shoot and it is not fully automatic then I see no reason to ban them.
7. I do not think this would help that much. How do you know that the teachers or principals are sane. They could have a bad day also. This could open a new can of worms and something we do not want to open.
I think that if they would enforce the laws we have now most of this will go away. If a criminal wants a gun or weapon of any kind they will get one. I do believe if the media would not cover the shooting as they do and make people want to get their names in the paper some of these problems would not happen as often as they do now. These are my opinions.
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02-03-2013, 11:53 AM
Post: #6
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Just to spark conversation...I'll let you make your own judgement



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02-03-2013, 08:16 PM
Post: #7
RE: The 2nd Amendment
(02-03-2013 11:53 AM)dalden Wrote:  Just to spark conversation...I'll let you make your own judgement




I have watched this before and it really makes you think...thanks for posting the link. Maybe the picture of our pres shooting skeet made up also...
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02-03-2013, 08:41 PM
Post: #8
RE: The 2nd Amendment
It wasn't til recently that I had heard he didn't even bing he AR-15 into he school with him! Yet the powers at be decide to pick out the assault rifle to be banned! WTF! Way to make up the news! There's a tv show on the sportsman channel every weekday at 4pm called NRA news can and CO. WATCH IT! They replay the news from recent days events and retell the story in its entirety unedited, unlike the news org. MSNBC who choose to edit things to make pro gun ppl look bad!

I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, I require the same from them.-John Wayne
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02-03-2013, 09:14 PM
Post: #9
RE: The 2nd Amendment
(02-03-2013 10:28 AM)hootch Wrote:  Just a guess but I'll bet out of the 1280 people who died of gun related incidents most were in the barrio, ghetto or projects.
The stronger link is most likely drugs, not socioeconomic. Your brush is very broad sir.
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02-03-2013, 09:37 PM
Post: #10
RE: The 2nd Amendment
I just know that the perps are usually the same color as the victims, take a look at the posted internet collage of those victims. Further research on gun murder statistics will support my hypothesis I believe. Prison demographics connected to incarcerated murderers will no doubt also support my ghetto comment and your drug comment.

LUCK IS THE RESIDUE OF DESIGN.
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02-03-2013, 10:17 PM
Post: #11
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Did GB SR order the assassination of Reagan to kick start the NWO? Who knows and who cares. Conspiracy theories should not concern us because we have NO say, regardless of what all the romantics may think. Your vote doesn't matter and your view of gun control doesn't either, que sera, sera my friends!

"Ya ez ready"
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02-03-2013, 10:26 PM
Post: #12
RE: The 2nd Amendment
What is the point of an assault rifle? Ill answer that, to kill in war. If you want to hunt fine, but we don't need these high powered automatic guns and high copacity magazines.

The fishing was good; it was the catching that was bad.
-A.K. Best
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02-03-2013, 10:26 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 12:01 AM by hootch.)
Post: #13
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Sadly you're probably more right than anyone here want's to believe.

LUCK IS THE RESIDUE OF DESIGN.
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02-03-2013, 10:39 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2013 10:42 PM by Ron.)
Post: #14
RE: The 2nd Amendment
No body gives a rat's ass if gang bangers are eliminating each other or drug dealers are neutralizing one other.
These people will be the first to admit this is an occupational hazard they have chosen to accept.
However, when it comes to slaughtering innocent 6 year olds, that is going to elicit a whole set of different emotions.
The fact guns were used only fuels the old gun control debate that isn't new.
We should instead examine what makes our society tick and the appetite for any form of violence. Guns, knives, explosives or slingshots.
Why are we so enthralled by death and destruction.
Just look at what entertains us and our children.

The hardest thing in life is knowing which bridge to cross and which one to burn.
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02-03-2013, 10:46 PM
Post: #15
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Tugging @ the heartstrings is a very effective way to get shit DUN Exclamation

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02-03-2013, 10:50 PM
Post: #16
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Or have we become heartless?

The hardest thing in life is knowing which bridge to cross and which one to burn.
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02-03-2013, 11:54 PM
Post: #17
RE: The 2nd Amendment
why do the leaders of this country think they can piss all over the constitution? we as citizens need to protect our selfs and our families just as the police and crimnals do. that is our right for now!

In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln
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02-04-2013, 12:08 AM
Post: #18
RE: The 2nd Amendment
I wish Randy Weaver would have had a 100 fully automatic weapons and emptied them all into the federal agents who murdered his wife and kid. It's such a complex issue no wonder no one really knows what to do, and I agree with Jigger.

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02-04-2013, 12:35 AM
Post: #19
RE: The 2nd Amendment
sad to say but in my honest opinon the media controls this nation. monkey see monkey do! us as patriotic americans are just along for the ride now. thats why i go out and enjoy every minute i have free in the outdoors. nothing more free than nature at it fullest!

In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln
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02-04-2013, 12:51 AM
Post: #20
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Totally agreed again jigger, it's billionaire moguls like David Geffen who pour massive amounts of funding into media swaying opinion who help steer the American propaganda machine to mold the national direction to their liking. People watch too much TV and read too little, although that said.....much of what you read today is false or misleading at best.

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02-04-2013, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 06:43 AM by Fish Hammer.)
Post: #21
RE: The 2nd Amendment
(02-03-2013 10:26 PM)Connor Wrote:  What is the point of an assault rifle? Ill answer that, to kill in war. If you want to hunt fine, but we don't need these high powered automatic guns and high copacity magazines.

Ok...I will bite. I response to the above post, very few people own a "high powered automatic guns with high capacity magazines". If you believe that is what they are trying to ban, you are uninformed and need to do some research before you try to debate this issue. The rifles they are trying to ban have the "look" of a military rifle and that is what people are scared of. Their action is semi automatic- just like a Remington 1187 shotgun or Ruger 10-22 rifle. It is really that simple. If anyone believes that they intend to stop at the military "look" rifles, you are sadly mistaken and will soon be surprised when the huge new government program comes asking for you to register all your guns.

As far as arming school teachers. We have thousands of soldiers returning from war that are unemployed and have a very special skill. We send billions of dollars to foreign countries every year for who knows what. Stop sending money to those countries and use that money to pay a decent wage to a couple of returning soldiers to be in each school full time - protecting and interacting with the kids. (I understand that all soldiers would not be a good fit for this)

As far as the media. They are absolutely in bed with the lefties.

I am a real estate agent and I have a conceal/carry permit. 95% of the time I am armed with a Springfield XDS 45 with an extended magazine that holds 7. I am constantly meeting people that I have never met at homes by myself, often in the country. Every year, there are a lot of instances of realtors (mostly women) being attacked, killed or raped in a vacant house by some weirdo that acted like they wanted to see that house. I have taken the required class and the time to train myself to shoot my gun properly. I am prepared mentally to wreck someones day if they attempt to harm me or my family. My kids are properly trained in gun safety and my guns at home are locked in a safe. There is no reason on this earth why I should not have the right to protect myself.

Since I have kids in a lot of activities, I spend a lot of time at the school in gyms, where by federal law I cannot carry a gun. It is a "gun free safe zone". How's that working out for you? If these idiots realized that half of the dads at the game or helping out in the classroom could be armed, they would probably think twice about where they want to make their name.

I truly believe if you love the outdoors - gun owner or not - you have a stake in this and need to stand up against these gun grabbers now.

Troy Seelhammer
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02-04-2013, 06:58 AM
Post: #22
RE: The 2nd Amendment
A couple of highlights from the "assault" weapons ban:

PROPOSED BILL HIGHLIGHTS:
H.F. 241: Assault Weapons Ban. Look carefully at the definition. Your Garand is now an assault weapon (> 7 rounds internal fixed magazine). After it takes effect, you have to move the weapon out of state, surrender it for destruction, render it inoperable, or register it!
H.F. 240: Prove you're sane! The sheriff may require you to get a letter from a doctor or psychiatrist to get a carry or transferee (purchase) permit
H.F. 242: 10 round mag limit must alter mag, surrender it for destruction, or move it out of state!
H.F. 243: 7 round mag limit must surrender it for destruction, or move it out of state!
H.F. 237: All transfers to be done by FFL's.
All transfers reported to Police(line 7.8).
Expands mental health loss of rights from court ordered commitment to just confinement.
H.F. 238: Felony to accidentally posses a firearm on school property.
It's currently a misdemeanor for permit holders to unknowingly or mistakenly find themselves on school property. One should not lose firearms rights (felony) for a simple mistake.
H.F. 239: Gross misdemeanor to remain after being asked to leave.
Second offense is a felony. Currently, it's a petty misdemeanor. As far as we know, NONE of these special tickets has ever been issued. This is an attempt to PUNISH permit holders and raise the potential loss of firearms rights.
H.F. 242: Loss or theft reports, transferring to ineligible person A person convicted of these crimes made ineligible to possess a firearm.

Troy Seelhammer
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02-04-2013, 08:19 AM
Post: #23
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Totally agree with you Troy.

My Ruger .22 pump with a tube magazine holds 17. My .22 mag. holds 12. Are they going to outlaw all of my small game guns because it holds more than "xx" numbers of rounds?

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02-04-2013, 08:28 AM
Post: #24
RE: The 2nd Amendment
The proposed Bills listed by Fish Hammer were introduced to the MN House last week. They are earily similar to those just recently passed in New York. Obama will be in MN today to push his gun control agenda. How far these bills will go is still the question, but with the Democratic control in both the House and Senate, you should be concerned. This is not only a threat to semi-auto centerfire rifles, but shotguns, rimfires, and handguns alike. Write your representatives, now is the time.

The 2nd Amendment is not about perserving your hunting and sporting heritage, but there are very legitimate purposes for both semi-automatic rifles and hi-capacity magazines even for recreational use.
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02-04-2013, 08:32 AM
Post: #25
RE: The 2nd Amendment
Agreed. Don't be intimidated of the look of the AR. It acts just like any other gun, you pull the trigger and it shoots one bullet only.

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